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Jake
Top Member
USA
3528 Posts |
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SteveCof00
Senior Member
USA
128 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2011 : 12:47:28 PM
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Please tell me that the bus was retired when you bought it...
On the other hand, for a vandal lock, one never knows; that might be just the visual deterrence needed.
quote:
Originally posted by BBInt.10
Probably because when you shake on a little salt, this is what you end up with:
That was the back of my first bus when I first bought it. There were actual holes rusted right through that door (which I had to replace) and the fumes would come right in the bus. That bus was a '91, and that photo was taken in '02. Should an 11 year old bus look like that? I think not. According to the maintenance records, the stepwell was so badly rotted by 1996 that it needed reinforcement in order to pass inspection. That was also falling apart again by the time I got it.
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 1:33:53 PM
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One thing I guarantee is the brand new IC's rust out just as fast if not faster than the wards of old. They are built exactly the same way except the decent green primer under the paneles has been replaced with cheap gray primer.
I remember the mid 80's wards when the floor beams would start cracking you could watch the seats fold in and out when hitting bumps. Scary . Changing defroster motors was always a treat .
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 2:11:31 PM
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Those Ford Wards are from north Louisiana, so they shouldn't have rust on them.
I like them! |
Edited by - Tatum on 01/20/2011 2:11:57 PM |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 3:34:43 PM
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That bus had been retired as a school bus by the time I had bought it, although it was still in use at a Christian school as an activity vehicle. It had commercial plates on it, and a standard commercial registration, and appeared to have been in service right up until when I purchased it (that was the first and last time I bought a bus on ebay).
Here's what it ended up like after much body work... a new door, new window, new reverse lights, much of the rotted sheet metal cut out and replaced, some body filler to smooth things out, and some fresh paint:
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If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 3:41:33 PM
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WOW! It looks like a completely different bus.
I like the color scheme. |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 4:51:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mastertech
One thing I guarantee is the brand new IC's rust out just as fast if not faster than the wards of old. They are built exactly the same way except the decent green primer under the paneles has been replaced with cheap gray primer.
I can guarentee that's not true. |
Robert B.
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 7:00:02 PM
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| They fade pretty quickly, though! |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 7:37:36 PM
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| It depends on the batch. We have four '05 IC CE's at my lot which we have had since brand new... these were built in July 2004, almost 7 years old now, and they shine like new. We have a spare mini BE, built in 2006, which we get from time to time from another lot, and that is very faded. All we have done to take care of our '05 CE's is wash them a few times a year with Dawn. The rear bumper gets repainted from time to time, and there is some rust starting around the reverse lights (because they still use the SAME fixtures that I had on my Ward), but other than that, those bodies are holding up very well. I'd say they're certainly built a lot better today than they were in the Ward days. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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Harrison Fire
Senior Member
United States
175 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 02:25:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 94AmTranVolunteer
I have a Question. Why do many people consider AmTran and Ward Volunteer's as Junk? Is their a Physical or Mechanical Reason behind this myth.
Because they have actually had to repair them in comparison to other brands.
What is your personal medium truck repair experience?
HF |
My Fleet? (6) 93/99 IH 3800 Thomas and Blue Bird, Hydraulic Brakes, Manual and Auto Trans, (10) 00/06 FS65 Thomas Air Brake and Auto Trans, (2) 06 C2 Thomas and (2) 09/10 IC CE 300, Plus 3 more from another District |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 03:09:53 AM
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We have a very early "CE" with the "INTERNATIONAL" logo over the door... It is rusty really badly below the windshield, behind the rear wheels and on the rear emergency exit door.
Our 2005 CEs also are showing signs of rust.... None of the CEs are faded badly tho. |
Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1
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Bus Boy 39
Top Member
USA
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 04:21:28 AM
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| All or our AmTrans are faded. The older AmTrans, 1996-1999 that we have, all the rivets are rusted, rust around all the wheel wells, rust around the rear emergency door, around all lights. Theses buses look horrible. If they were repainted, they would be some what decent. The only good thing about them are the International engines. We have two 2002 International FE's and they are holding up pretty well. The only thing that is faded on them are the roof and suprisingly the rear emergency doors. |
I'll show you my air brakes if you show me yours. |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 11:55:58 AM
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| I always wondered how just certain body panels faded and not others even though they must have been painted at the same time. Although paint fade hasnt really been much of an issue here till the the last decade . |
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RichBusman
Advanced Member
453 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 12:12:19 PM
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They are considered junk by many because they rust faster than other buses, at least in my experience from what I've seen in NY.
However, with that said... IC does have the best support. There are quite a few districts around here getting Blue Bird's repainted due to piss poor paint jobs, and it is an act of God getting Blue Bird to honor the warranty. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 12:24:01 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by BBInt.10
That bus had been retired as a school bus by the time I had bought it, although it was still in use at a Christian school as an activity vehicle. It had commercial plates on it, and a standard commercial registration, and appeared to have been in service right up until when I purchased it (that was the first and last time I bought a bus on ebay).
Here's what it ended up like after much body work... a new door, new window, new reverse lights, much of the rotted sheet metal cut out and replaced, some body filler to smooth things out, and some fresh paint:[quote]
Good looking bus there. I really like the colors you chose and the fenders being a different color than the rest of the hood. What are you doing with it now? |
Bryan |
Edited by - bwest on 01/21/2011 12:27:58 PM |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 4:23:34 PM
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I sold it to a scrap yard in 2006. It had a blown brake line, a bad master cylinder, a transmission that "stuck" if it sat (and you'd have to pop the clutch to get it to lurch forward), an inoperable parking brake, a considerable oil leak in the engine, and a rotted out exhaust system. I did a VIN check on Carfax a year later, and found that it had been exported to Haiti. It's probably running around Haiti painted with all the colors of the rainbow, and a roof rack to hold more passengers.
Below is my current toy.
This one is a '93 Blue Bird with the DTA360 and air brakes. It was a spare bus during the '06-'07 school year at the lot where I drive, and is by far the best running 360 I've ever driven. Tons of power. When they retired it, I couldn't let it go to auction. I stuck with the same paint scheme, but chose some different colors. This bus was done at a professional body shop that specializes in buses (my Ward was a Maaco job), and had any areas of rust professionally repaired, so the body is pretty mint. The next step is to get the undercarriage sandblasted and undercoated. It's a work in progress... as money permits. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 05:53:29 AM
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| So the question remains; what are you doing with it? it would be neat to see that other one in Haiti. |
Bryan |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 06:44:09 AM
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| Not too much. When I get together with the other east coast bus nuts, I'll drive it to our meets. Sometimes I just get in and go for a ride for the heck of it. It's really nothing more than a toy. Currently, it's sitting plowed into the corner of a parking lot under about 2' of snow. It won't see the road again until at least April. I don't want to get the undercarriage all coated with road salt. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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Jake
Top Member
USA
3528 Posts |
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AW
Senior Member
52 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 5:32:24 PM
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| Hey that bus doesn't have a vandal lock... |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2011 : 06:56:23 AM
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| Good one Jake. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4559 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2011 : 10:46:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mastertech
I always wondered how just certain body panels faded and not others even though they must have been painted at the same time.
Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't understand this occurance. I've seen a lot of AmTrans around here with one random roof or side panel faded and the rest are glossy. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2011 : 11:44:51 AM
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| Has to be something in the metal. Are they all galvanized any more? Maybe the valvanization was not put on correctly. |
Bryan |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4559 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2011 : 4:07:01 PM
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| Ah, interesting thought there! That could explain it all. |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2011 : 06:35:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne
quote:
Originally posted by mastertech
One thing I guarantee is the brand new IC's rust out just as fast if not faster than the wards of old. They are built exactly the same way except the decent green primer under the paneles has been replaced with cheap gray primer.
I can guarentee that's not true.
Oh really what year did they improve something and what exactly did they do. Ive already noticed the paint falling off the rivets on the roof cap above the rear door on our new 2010 CE bus with 15,000 miles on it . Several screws have also snapped off the wheel well trim. Its kind of depressing to see the white crud/powder coming through the undercoating on the floors. I asume it aluminum oxide from the alluminized floor panels. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 06:34:30 AM
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| I think they get those loose rivits, stretched panels and some force fit on the assembly line. When it don't fit, force it is what they do in a pinch. Rather than stop the line and fix it right. All the body builders do this I bet. Ever find a rivit under the rubber seal after changing a cracked windshield? All we can do is submit photos and raise hell with quality control. We don't settle for it on our new cars, why do we let it slide on a bus? |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 1:31:43 PM
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Speaking of quality control . Whats up with the new drivers seats with the 1980's ward seat posts. No matter how much you tighten them donw in 2 minutes they are loose and wobbling. LOL
By far the best joke they played on the drivers in putting the cup holder on a flip up glove box. Every once in a while someone launches their coffee into the window or out the window. |
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94AmTranVolunteer
Advanced Member
264 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 4:40:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 08 Thomas EF
The build quality of the front of the bus (door assemblies, dashboard, windshield seals, bulkhead, etc.) is superior in TC2000s of all age ('91, '92, '97, '00, '01, and '02 that we have) than our 6 '01 AmTran FEs from my observations. And the AmTrans are showing more rust and fading than the TCs.
The AmTrans also have a very bouncy, nauseating front suspension system, at least compared to the TCs. We have a driver who drives an '05 CE200 and is afraid of type Ds because of a head-on collision. If his bus is out, he'll only use a TC. He's never been in an AmTran FE. He probably feels safer in the TC due to it being more solid overall.
The '04 CE200 we have is the worst-built bus I've ever been in, especially at the front. Everything shaking visibly, rattling, squeaking. The Futura CEs are a huge improvement over this, especially the dashboard. I think that the rigidity of the interior roof panels and walls in the Futura CE was sacrificed, but overall I think everything is better about the Futuras.
We have a '97 TC that looks like new from the outside, while the AmTran FEs are rusting, losing warning light seals, and fading. We also had a 1995 Thomas Minotour and its paint was flawless except for some thin, vertical lines of rust directly under the light lenses. The newer Thomases ('02, '04) seem to be faring somewhat better than the AmTrans. The 2004 CE200 has faded noticeably. The '05 CE200s are pretty good for now.
Only the '01 TC is fading, and but at least it's a consistent, 360-degree fading, unlike the AmTrans (random panels all around) and the Thomases I mentioned, which have some fading on the roofs but are OK otherwise.
Well, while AmTran's can be a little rusty [depends on location] I have to say AmTran's are better. I prefer older AmTran's, as they are more quality built than ones from 97+. My Old School had a 1993 AmTran Volunteer and had no problems except a beeping issue, which was fixed, while a 2006 Blue-Bird Vision broke down every other week and a 1999 AmTran CS never ran.
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Answering Electrical Problems One at a Time. |
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Jake
Top Member
USA
3528 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 5:21:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 94AmTranVolunteer
Well, while AmTran's can be a little rusty [depends on location] I have to say AmTran's are better... My Old School had a 1993 AmTran Volunteer and had no problems except a beeping issue, which was fixed, while a 2006 Blue-Bird Vision broke down every other week and a 1999 AmTran CS never ran.
I believe you contradicted yourself, sorry. |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 7:10:42 PM
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| 1 Volunteer, 1 CS, and 1 Vision is a rather narrow range for comparison. |
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94AmTranVolunteer
Advanced Member
264 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 8:13:16 PM
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Well let me compare one to a 2011 BB Vision.
1993 AmTran Volunteer's hardly break down, while a 2011 BB Vision thats probably not even a month old breaks down every other week. Speaking of which, I compared it to a 2007 BB Vision earlier and there are so many other Bus Model's I could compare them to. |
Answering Electrical Problems One at a Time. |
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 9:12:00 PM
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| If the Vision breaks down, then it's a problem on Cummins part, not Blue Bird. |
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Jake
Top Member
USA
3528 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 9:32:26 PM
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| I would also like to see statistical data backing your findings. We had a 2007 Thomas Freightliner that was very reliable, and the only time it was out during the year was if it needed its strobe light replaced (minus an incident with the air door getting screwed up, however, that was the fault of a student ramming into it). |
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 9:35:50 PM
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| Wait a minute..Terry, I could have sworn you said you were leaving the School Bus Fleet forums? Why the change of heart? |
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Topic |
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Why do People Consider AmTran and Ward Buses Junk?
