| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
 Posted - 09/26/2001 : 2:00:18 PM
|
Do your states spec light monitors? I'd also like to know what the letters ELMO on the top of the old monitors stand for... I'm guessing the first three are Exterior Light Monitor...but what about the "O?"
Stop at: www.mikesbusyard.cjb.net |
|
|
B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2001 : 3:19:31 PM
|
Some districts in my state spec them, some don't. Some districts spec out the 8-lamp monitors, while other districts spec out the full, 16-lamp monitors.
There are also a few buses that have had aftermarket "ELMs" installed. They weren't spec'ed with them, and they didn't come with them when they were delivered. But, over the summer the mechanics installed the ELMs on the buses that didn't have them.
Bob
(B. Busguy33)
"Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest... 
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!!  " |
 |
|
|
Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2001 : 4:06:44 PM
|
I think in Michigan some kind of a monitoring system is required for the warning lights. Lots of the districts spec the ELMO systems to comply with this law. Although it's not required, much of my district's buses are equipped with the 16 lamp monitor also. The bus I own I've installed a 12 lamp monitor on it. It has all the lights except the amber warning lights. Because my bus only has one wire going to each set of ambers and reds, it could only have the red lights.
Stop at: www.mikesbusyard.cjb.net
Edited by - The BusBoy on 09/26/2001 4:07:27 PM |
|
|
|
thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2001 : 5:57:56 PM
|
The BusBoy- In response to your question:
Exterior Light Monitor Operations.
I saw a picture of the control panel on your bus when I was on your site. I had the same monitor on my old 86 Thomas except it was only a four light ELMO. It monitored only the reds. When we installed the 4/8 way converter kits we couldn't switch the monitor because we too had only the single wire going to each set of lights.
I am not sure if Michigan requires exterior light monitors or not. If they are required they are probably only 8 light monitors. We have speced 16 lamp monitors on our buses ever since 1990 when MI started requiring ambers. In the late 80's we speced 12 lamp monitors for the reds and other lights. 1986 and prior we only speced 4 light exterior light monitors to monitor the reds. Those were the ELMO's.
I don't know where BusDiva has been lately, but he knows everything about bus specs in Michigan. You might be correct about MI requiring the light monitors, and you could be wrong. I don't really know.
I would like to make a comment about the positioning of Exterior Light Monitors. They should be on the control panel where you can see the things(where Thomas puts it) not above the drivers head where Blue Bird puts the things. AmTran does the same, but at least most of theres are at least angled down at the driver. Just my opinion.
86-A It will go in circles around your bus.
|
|
|
|
B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2001 : 6:24:13 PM
|
quote:
I would like to make a comment about the positioning of Exterior Light Monitors. They should be on the control panel where you can see the things(where Thomas puts it) not above the drivers head where Blue Bird puts the things. AmTran does the same, but at least most of theres are at least angled down at the driver. Just my opinion.
Hey thomas_86a,
I have a new brochure for the Thomas conventional school bus body, and they show a picture taken from inside of the school bus. It shows the Exterior Light Monitor above the windshield. I had no idea the ELM's could be spec'ed that way on a Thomas. I thought they just put them on the switch panel, like you had described...I found this to be interesting!
I have also seen a late '90's International/Thomas conventional. It too had the ELM mounted above the windsheild. (I know for sure I wasn't hallucinating either  .)
Bob
(B. Busguy33)
"Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest...
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!! " |
|
|
|
Blue Bird 0199
Senior Member
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2001 : 6:27:00 PM
|
Hey Thomas86_a,
All of ours Thomas Buses ELMO are place above the driver head. In fact all of ours buses ELMO are place above the driver head. No I take that back our 96 Crown By Carpenter buses are place in the panel. To tell you the truth I like it better that way because you are going to look up in the mirror anyway to make the students have taking their seat. The ELMO is place next to the mirror. Plus when you pre-check outside the bus you can look from the back of the bus to the front of the bus to make the ELMO is working properly. Now to answers the questions when been spec our buses with ELMO since 1989. We Spce them with 16-lamp monitors.
Chris |
|
|
|
BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2001 : 6:34:26 PM
|
When I sold School Buses, we called them Exterior Light Monitor Operations also.
You can buy the 8 way warning lights, or the 16 warning lights, what ever is writen in the specs.
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2001 : 07:36:13 AM
|
ELMO- Electric Light MOnitor
Joe
|
|
|
|
Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2001 : 09:24:55 AM
|
I've also seen on some 87 Thomas Conventionals a weird kind of monitor above the windshield. It just has the 8 lights, and the lights on the monitor have this weird inverted plastic thingy on them...kind of like a plastic red or amber cup. The light is behind this, and the whole thing is angled down to the driver. Because of the design, you can only see the lights when you're sitting in the driver's seat, not from any other angle.
However, these buses also have the rear warning lights designed so that there's also a lens on the inside of the bus. Kind of a double-sided light that goes right through the roof cap, so you can see the lights just by looking in the interior mirror.
—Phil
"It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird." |
|
|
|
Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2001 : 1:28:23 PM
|
Thomas86 a, I think I have the same 8way converter that #86-A has. I had the old 4 light ELMO at the time. However, it was old and peeling. One of the LEDs also wouldn't work. So I replaced it, and when I did I decided to upgrade it to a 12 lamp monitor. On our 96's the ELMO is above the driver's head angled down. What I think is stupid, though, is that on the 2001 Minotours, the ELMO is located above the drivers window to the left. It's not angled down either. What do you think about that? Well, thanks for all your answers, and I'm still eager to hear more opinions!
Oh, Phil, those lights and monitor you described must have been on option. I've never seen anything like it!
Stop at: www.mikesbusyard.cjb.net
Edited by - The BusBoy on 09/27/2001 1:35:11 PM |
|
|
|
BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 8:33:39 PM
|
ELMO- Was the light monitor manufactured by Doran in the 80's. Aeroflash made the monitor board for the wards and Catrpenters in the 80's and everyone else in the 70's. ELMO stood for Exterior Light Monitor Operatiosn.
Michigan Law requires that a driver have some sort of monitor devioce on the inside to see the lights on the exterior. It only needs to show the red and amber warning lights- not the turn signals and the rest.
The light monitor that phil is describing is basically the same warning lights but on the inside of the bus. If you took the bulb out of the housing unit- from the outside you could actually see the inside of the bus. Kind of a great unit but looks almost like Christmas Tree lights going on and off.
Pickney Community Schools has them in their 1997 and 1998 Thomas EF . Now they are back to light monitors by Doran.
I have quite an extensive collection of light monitors in my school bus collection.
Thomas offeres the angled light monitor on all their buses. A kit is also available through Unity School Bus Parts to mount behind the old monitor to angle them down at the driver like the Thomas buses.
P.S. We have no mechanic now so I have been busy helping out. 40 buses and no mechanic
|
|
|
|
MdntDrmr
Active Member
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 7:09:51 PM
|
All of our buses have the 16 light monitor. Our oldest buses are 1989 T/C 2000 and they have the 16 light monitor. So I would say GA requires it on all new purchased buses. All of ours in Clayton when I was there had the 16 light monitor but they were only on buses 1992 and newer. They are still running early 80's models. So guess they still have a lot without the light monitor. Who knows!
Be SAFE!
BLUE BIRD and HENRY COUNTY GEORGIA ROCK! |
|
|
|
BusCritic
Active Member
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2001 : 3:38:54 PM
|
I am not sure what kind of monitor the 82 Wayne had that I rode I think it was an ELMO manuafactured by Doran, but I could be wrong I only rode it until the begining of second grade then someone else got it, and I rode it a few times in sixth grade when it was a spare.
The 86 Thomas I rode had an ELMO four light montior. When they added the converter kits to our buses the red lights on the ELMO flashed when the ambers were on, and they flashed when the actual reds were on.
I also think that the light montiors should be mounted on the control panel, and if they are going to be above the drivers head they need to be angled down at the driver.
If it's not a Thomas Built Bus, I would rather walk to school. |
|
|
|
BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2001 : 5:21:39 PM
|
The light monitors can be spec'd with them angled down if the district would like it that way.
Alswo, you may retrofit your fleet with a box that just screws into place over the old hole and the monitor screws ina metal box that will angle it down at the driver. I would prefer the monitor to be on the dash board by the gauges or nest to it. Would be easier for the driver versus looking to the left or up.
|
|
|
|
thomasvista2012
Top Member
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2001 : 8:31:43 PM
|
Florida does not spec light monitors, and our district doesn't have them, although I've seen other districts with ELMOs installed. The ELMOs would probably help a lot, because you wouldn't believe the number of times I've seen buses with one of the amber or red flashers not working!
"Gotta love those buses!" |
|
|
|
thomasvista2012
Top Member
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 08:20:45 AM
|
subsbd,
Our drivers are required to pre-trip also. Out of the 2,000 drivers we have, we've got a few "bad apples" which are too lazy to pre-trip. I've encountered them before. Then, they are too lazy to write up any malfunctioning items, like the 8-way flashers.
Our district can't keep track of everyone, but they should severely penalize drivers that don't pre-trip properly. It's a miracle we haven't had a major accident relating to the 8-way flashers.
"Gotta love those buses!" |
|
|
|
Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 10:43:40 AM
|
I still think having the rear 8-ways with the lenses inside as well as outside would be cool--that way you can make sure all the lights are working for the whole run, not just when you pre-trip. Check the interior mirror for the rear lights, and the crossviews for the front lights.
—Phil
"It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird." |
|
|
|
BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 2:41:59 PM
|
Phil
Unfortunately state law prohibits the usage of mirrors to see lights of any sort work. Therefor, crossover mirrors are not to be used to view any lights.
Easier put, the cross over mirrors should show you everything below the windhsield. If you can see anythign above it, then the mechanic, the trainer and driver work together to get the mirror adjusted properly or replaced.
Now, the wording of this law is odd, so I would also assume it to be true that you should not be able to use your mirror from the iside- the rear view mirror to see the warning lights such as what you described Phil.
I still believe in the light monitor for constant monitoring while driving on the road.
It's the little things that count |
|
|
|
Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 3:40:34 PM
|
Well, if you have the full circle crossview mirrors, like my bus, you would be able to see the warning lights.
Stop at: www.buses.cjb.net |
|
|
|
Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2001 : 5:18:57 PM
|
I don't know that Thomas afford the ELM angle down, so it look just like the AmTran right? Hey busboy my 99 Thomas had the round mirror too but not like your,here a picture of it http://www.geocities.com/busman_49/Dalton6.html
In this mirrors you can see the 4 way lights and the students crossing at the same time. You can't really adjusted these mirror where you can only see the students cross in front of you. That was only for ours 99 and 00 Thomas model. For ours 01 Thomas model it have that mirror it look like the new Blue Bird model not the round one the one with the busboy mirror and it come straight up, the Thomas have the same one but it come straight up than curve than straight up aging with the busboy mirror at the end of the pole. I hope y'all get the picture.
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
|
|
|
|
Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 03:20:39 AM
|
On the Thomas buses, the ELMO that is angled down is above the driver's head and mounted on a black box. The box is then angled down. If you look at the radios and ELMO's on the Thomas EF's, you'll see the ELMO mounted on top of the radio. When it's angeled down, the ELMO is on the same unit as the EF's except flush with the wall. No, your mirrors aren't the same as mine, but, yes, you do the see the same as I can.
Stop at: www.buses.cjb.net |
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 3:51:38 PM
|
We've used ELMO's since 1984 as optional equipment on our buses. They play an important part in our training process, but they won't take the place of a good pre-trip inspection.
Joe
|
|
|
|
BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 4:38:33 PM
|
Our 1997 AmTran RE'S have the rosco round cross view mirrors. If you playn with the mirrors and tools they can be angled down in whcih they show everything below the windshield.
It takes time, but remember, if ever something should happen in an accident, the first question will be in court was were your mirrors properly adjusted? If they find out you saw any light reflection or sunlight reflecting, watch out. Thats a sure sign of guilt and negligence on the driver's behalf.
We spoke up when these buses came in and our company bragged about how much more you can see. Our defense was the purpose of the cross over mirrors was not to see traffic, not to see lights light up but to see children in our blind spots and near the wheels.
The company stepped in immediately and will only order the banana style mirrors for us now, and when we replace mirrors from damage now we will also get the newer style.
It's the little things that count |
|
|
|
Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 5:53:24 PM
|
I know this is a little of topic but oh well. But if you have the full circle mirrors you can't help that you see the lights. Mine are adjusted as far down as they can go, and I still see the lights. There's really no way to prevent it because of how the mirrors are designed. They're twice the size of the banana mirrors (the half circle) so they see all the half circles do plus more.
Stop at: www.buses.cjb.net |
|
|
|
Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 6:45:26 PM
|
quote:
I know this is a little of topic but oh well. But if you have the full circle mirrors you can't help that you see the lights. Mine are adjusted as far down as they can go, and I still see the lights. There's really no way to prevent it because of how the mirrors are designed. They're twice the size of the banana mirrors (the half circle) so they see all the half circles do plus more.
Stop at: www.buses.cjb.net
Same here that what I said last time. You can't help but to see the lights and the upper part of the bus. I don't find it danger because you can still see the children crossing and around the the front two wheels. I had my safty trainer to adjusted the mirrors; she adjusted the mirrors the same way she would adjusted the Bus Boy mirrors, still you could see the lights and upper part of the bus. She said I should be fine as long I can see the children crossing and the front two wheels. Have anyone seen the new Bus Boy mirrors on the Blue Bird,and Thomas Buses? They show the same veiw that round mirrors veiw. Blue Bird came out with the new Boy Boy mirrors I believe in 98.
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Exterior Light Monitors
