| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Blue Bird 0199
Senior Member
USA
71 Posts |
 Posted - 08/23/2001 : 2:27:22 PM
|
I have notice that my Blue Bird International hubs have 5 holes on it. Last year I drove a 95 Thomas Internatinal and the hubs have two holes on it. Around my area a lot of fleets are changing their hubs with two holes to hubs with five holes. What so werid is that last year ours Thomas Freightliner hubs had two holes on it. We have had the hubs with two holes for eight years, now out of the blue moon they are getting the hubs with five holes. Could someone tell me what the diffrent. Is the hubs with two holes cost more money than the hubs with five holes. Are your fleet going through this too. I have seen a lot of fleet changing their hubs with two holes to hubs with five holes. Hope you can anwers my questions.
Thanks
Chris |
|
|
Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2001 : 2:59:09 PM
|
Hey Chris, first I would like to say welcome to the SBF!
My dristict fleet are doing the same thing. My Thomas International have five hand holes wheels. I don't like it. I like the look of the wheels with two hand holes. All of ours 2001 buses have five hand holes wheel. So I am guessing that it is cheaper to have the five hand holes wheels than the two hand holes wheels. Oh well they are here to stay. It well take time for me to get use to the look of the five hand holes wheels.
Good Day Yall!
Thomas International 265
Thomas Freightliner 447
Edited by - Thomas00 on 10/23/2001 5:15:05 PM |
 |
|
|
B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2001 : 4:53:00 PM
|
All of our '88-'89 GMC/Blue Birds (that were retired last year...most of them anyways) and '93-'95 International/Blue Birds have the 2-hole disc wheels. But the '00's they received, all had the 5-hole disc wheels.
But in another district near me, they have been using the spoked wheel up until '99. From '99 on, they have been using the 2-hole disc wheels.
Also, some disc wheels that I have seen are black. Actually, most of them are black that I have seen. I have also seen some disc wheels that are painted yellow as well.
Bob
(B. Busguy33)
"Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest... 
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!!  "
Edited by - B. Busguy33 on 08/23/2001 6:52:56 PM |
|
|
|
Bus Boy 39
Top Member
USA
1315 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2001 : 6:11:38 PM
|
I have no clue what you're all talking about--two hole hubs or five hole hubs???
"Blue Birds Rule!" |
|
|
|
BrianG
Active Member
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2001 : 8:30:19 PM
|
I believe that you are talking about the holes in the rims. The biggest difference between two hole rims and 5 hole rims (besides weight) is that the 5 hole rims provide more air flow to the brakes allowing them to run cooler. Most busses run five hole rims.
|
|
|
|
Bus Boy 39
Top Member
USA
1315 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2001 : 05:02:51 AM
|
Does anybody have a picture that they could show me?
"Blue Birds Rule!" |
|
|
|
cowlitzcoach
Advanced Member
USA
325 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2001 : 06:57:27 AM
|
I think what we are talking about here is the change from 5-hole disc wheels to 2-hole disc wheels and not hubs.
It is supposed 5-hole discs (as well as spoke type wheels) cool the brakes better than 2-hole discs. Unless you are coming down mountain passes at full speed I don't think it makes that much of a difference.
For a lot fleets, changing from 5-hole to 2-hole wheels is usually accomplished when the wheels are changed from tube type to tubeless type wheels. Most aftermarket steel wheels are 2-hole. Alcoa aluminum wheels have a whole bunch more holes that are a lot smaller.
My buses with tubeless wheels all have 2-hole steel wheels. My buses with tube type wheels have 5-hole. At the Road-e-o this spring I noticed the buses from one particular district had both 2- and 5-hole tubeless wheels. And it wasn't consistent from bus to bus--one had all 2-hole, one had all 5-hole, and one had both 2- and 5-hole wheels.
Go figure, right?
Personally, I prefer the look of the 2-hole wheel.
Mark O.
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2001 : 10:38:05 AM
|
We standardized on the two holes (they are called hand holes) this year. For years it was as cowlitz said 2 hole for tubeless and 5 hole for tube type tires.(They are called hand holes because you reach through the hole to check or add air to the inside dual). Now with the advent of "hub-piloted" wheels some mfgs have gone back to five again. We specified two holes just for uniformity, and because the two won't match up together preventing their simultaneous use on the same axle. Now we won't have that problem.
Joe
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2001 : 10:38:14 AM
|
Edited by - wagonmaster on 08/24/2001 10:40:48 AM |
|
|
|
Blue Bird 0199
Senior Member
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2001 : 4:37:05 PM
|
What I'm saying my fleet went from two hole tubs to five hole tubs. I asked one of my boss today why they change tubs he said to cut back on down time. Which tubs cost more? Which do you all think is better? Also what happen if the brake are not getting enough air flow?
thanks
Chris |
|
|
|
Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2001 : 4:57:47 PM
|
My '77 Gillig is equipped with 5 hole rims, and I prefer them over two hole rims. A five hole rim allows more air flow to the brake assemblies, and thus allowing for more ventilation of the brakes. I plan on installing Alcoa rims someday, because they have many more holes than five. The more holes on the rim, the better. Just as long as they don't effect the rigidity of the rim.
"Preserving America's best - THE GILLIG! - THE BEST NEVER REST" http://www.geocities.com/gilligcoaches/
Edited by - Steven A.Rosenow on 08/24/2001 4:58:57 PM |
|
|
|
Blue Bird 0199
Senior Member
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 2:24:57 PM
|
O.k. Someone told me when you spec your buses with 5 holes rims it cost more than 2 holes rims. Is that true??? Also this person told me if you have DT466 you more likly to get the 5 holes rims because of the heat going to the brakes, or if you have hydr Brake. To me that did not sound right. (I need to take Auto Shop Class on school bus brake and engine LOL!)
Chris |
|
|
|
cowlitzcoach
Advanced Member
USA
325 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 2:51:37 PM
|
5-hole or 2-hole shouldn't cost more or less since they cost virtually the same.
5-hole will flow more air than 2-hole wheels but the amount is not that much different. As to only available with certain types of engines, I have never heard that before. IHC just prefers to use 5-hole and not 2-hole.
Mark O.
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 4:28:20 PM
|
Most manufacturers will provide the 2 or the 5 hand hole wheels. There is NO significant difference in airflow either way, as explained to our spec committee by the wheel mfgs. Most of the air flow comes from under the bus, behind the wheels anyway. We simply want ALL of our wheels to be interchangeable, and alike. (We KNOW that you can't mix hub piloted wheels with stud piloted wheels) This way when tires require changing, we won't have to hunt and search for matching wheels. Not rocket science, just good common sense. By the way, Amtran/IHC is standard with two hand holes, but will provide either, according to folks in Conway.
Joe
Edited by - wagonmaster on 08/30/2001 4:31:57 PM |
|
|
|
B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 5:28:35 PM
|
quote:
O.k. Someone told me when you spec your buses with 5 holes rims it cost more than 2 holes rims. Is that true??? Also this person told me if you have DT466 you more likly to get the 5 holes rims because of the heat going to the brakes, or if you have hydr Brake. To me that did not sound right. (I need to take Auto Shop Class on school bus brake and engine LOL!)
Chris
Hey Chris,
My district has '95 International/Blue Birds with a DT 466 and the 2-hand-hole disc wheels. However, last year we received '00 International/Blue Birds with a T444E and those have the 5-hand-hole disc wheels. Both buses are equipped with hydraulic brakes.
Please note: The '00 International/Blue Birds are equipped with hydraulic ABS brakes, whereas the '95's just had the hydraulic brakes.
As was already mentioned previously, you can get either 2- or 5-hand-hole disc wheels. It just depends on what your district prefers to spec out for their buses.
Bob
(B. Busguy33)
"Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest...
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!! " |
|
|
|
Stock2935
Active Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 7:28:38 PM
|
ive noticed that along with districts changing over to 5 hole discs from the 2 whole discs, why has the spoke rim design begun to be seen less and less on fleets around the area. are they more costly or just not offered anymore?
"Thomas Built the best"
GM |
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2001 : 06:52:38 AM
|
The old cast spoke design is much more labor intensive, only has five(or six) lug nuts and studs holding on each wheel assembly, and can "wobble" giving the appearance that they are falling off even when they aren't. Anyone still using those? They MUST be trued up after mounting on the bus to ensure that they run true and won't "wobble" and cause vibrations and other steering wheel gyrations. They are commonly referred to as "Dayton" wheels.
The steel disc or "Budd" type wheels have 8 or 10 lug nuts and studs for each assembly and are seated on the hub and drum. This makes the need to "true" them unnecessary. They were originally two hand hole wheels for the tubeless tires and five hand hole for the old tube type tires,(thats how they could be "told" apart) but tubeless tires have been the "norm" for over 30 years now, making that no longer necessary.
This may be more info than you needed, but it may add some clarity for others.
Joe
|
|
|
|
Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2001 : 08:33:11 AM
|
I believe you are talking about the steel wheels. The hub is actually the part that the wheel bolts to. Wheels with two holes are cheaper to buy than 5 hole wheels. When I purchase replacent wheels or rims I can buy the two hole rim about 25 percent cheaper than the five hole. They are both good wheels. Two hole rims can be heavier duty than the five hole wheels. Availability might be why you see different types on new buses. Most manufacturers buy what is readily available. Both work well on school buses.
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2001 : 12:48:44 PM
|
You're correct, Brad. This topic got started by someone calling them "hubs", and the title stays the same regardless of responses. Clearly, we are talking about wheels.
Joe
|
|
|
|
Blue Bird 0199
Senior Member
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2001 : 5:22:12 PM
|
I'm the person that called them hubs. Hubs, wheels you people still got the picture. Thank you Brad that what I was saying before the 5 holes wheel cost more than the 2 holes wheel. Why in the world would a fleet buy 5 holes wheels when it cost more money? They would save a lot of money if they brought 2 holes wheels. I think my fleet like to waste money!
Chris
Edited by - Blue Bird 0199 on 10/19/2001 5:23:04 PM |
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 08:05:17 AM
|
Bluebird's standard wheel is the five hand hole wheel. We had to pay a couple of extra dollars for two hand hole design to keep our buses the same on this years models! AmTran/International will provide either wheel without extra cost. Freightliner is also standard with the five hand hole wheel, but they will also provide the two hand hole design.
I've purchased both for very little difference in cost in the aftermarket.
Joe
|
|
|
|
Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2001 : 5:13:08 PM
|
Hey Wagonmaters when did Blue Bird start making Five hand hole wheel standard? I throught it was two hand hole wheel that was standard? So you are saying if the manufacturers standard wheels are five hand hole wheel than it cheaper than the two hand hole wheel right? So say if ours fleet get IC Buses their standard wheel are two hand hole right? If so it would be cheaper to have the two hand hole wheel than the five hand hole wheel right? Why is alot of manufacturers going from two hand hole wheels to five hand hole wheels? Maybe that explain the reasoning why my 2001 Thomas International have five hand hole wheels. I know the 2000 Thomas I had before had the two hand hole wheels.
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
|
|
|
|
BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2001 : 8:59:52 PM
|
My district still uses the spoke style "Dayton" wheels. Our fleet is all '94 Blue Bird Internationals. A neighboring district still uses them too, and their buses are all '95 Blue Bird Internationals. I've grown up with the spoked wheels and am very partial to them. Back during the mid '90's and before then, all of the buses in my area had the spoked wheels. But now the fleets in most of the regions around have been replaced with buses having the 5 hand-holed wheels. Is it still possible to order a bus with the spoked style "Dayton" wheels if you wanted?
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2001 : 05:34:48 AM
|
Thomas00,
The Standard Bluebird wheel is the 5 hand hole wheel. Remember I'm talking Bluebird NOT International or Freightliner. Those chassis would come with their own standard wheel. Blue bird chassis are the type "D" TC200 and All American units. Conventional buses have Chassis made by another manufacturer, and their rules apply! With Blubird, You have to pay extra for the TWO (2) hand hole wheels, Five holes are their standard offering. Freightliner is also standard with 5 holes, International will give you either one.
BBInt10,
Yes, you can still buy the old style "dayton" wheels. Not many people go that way any more due to all the labor issues with them. They just aren't cost effective to buy or maintain.
Joe
|
|
|
|
Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2001 : 3:03:54 PM
|
Hey, yesterday I saw four hand-hole hubs on a 1995 Thomas Ford Conventional. Are those common?
Stop at: www.buses.cjb.net |
|
|
|
Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 12:56:03 PM
|
It all has to do with the sized of the vehicle and the amount of weight it will carry.
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 5:13:41 PM
|
TBB and Brad,
The hand holes on the wheels have nothing whatsoever to do with weight bearing capacity. The four hand hole wheels come with the eight (8) lug hub piloted wheels that are fairly common in the trucking industry, but not all that common in our business.
The width of the wheels will increase as the weight goes up as follows:
28,000 gvwr chassis (for instance) would usually have 10R X 22.5 tires on 7.5" rims(wheels)
35,000 gvwr chassis (for instance) would come with 11R X 22.5 tires and 8.25" wide wheels
All this has nothing to do with the hand holes. Hand holes are for checking and adding air pressure to the inside wheel of a dual wheel system such as a rear drive axle. You can STILL get 2 or 5 hand holes as your specifications dictate.
Joe
|
|
|
|
Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 9:14:10 PM
|
Hey Joe which do you like better 2 hand holes or 5 hand holes wheels?
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2001 : 07:10:04 AM
|
It really makes no difference to me, but we have changed our state bid to be 2 hand hole wheels so that we can all standardize our fleets. If we didn't do that we could get five from Bluebird and two from International, etc. They will all fit on the same bus but the hand holes on one won't line up with the other, making checking the air pressure on the inside dual extremely difficult. A two hand hole wheel must be matched to another two hand hole wheel, and so forth...... We have had good luck with the two hand hole design for the last 14 or so years, so we have elected to stay with that look now that we have included "hub piloted" wheels as standard equipment.
At the risk of being redundant, we know that stud piloted wheels and the newer hub piloted wheels don't correctly interchange, but having all our wheels with two hand holes adds uniformity to our fleet, even if the hub piloted wheels are painted school bus yellow!
Joe
|
|
|
|
BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2001 : 04:26:16 AM
|
Joe,
Why did Florida go to painting their hubs all Yellow?
|
|
|
|
wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2001 : 1:33:52 PM
|
The hub piloted WHEELS are painted yellow to make it easier to tell them from the stud piloted ones. They aren't supposed to interchange, and they won't....correctly. However the older stud piloted wheels CAN be installed onto the new buses, and that isn't a good thing. The spec committee was asked to change the color of the wheels to yellow to help prevent mismatching, so we did. Some folks really like the change, some hate it.
Joe
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Hubs
