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tidesinn2
Senior Member
USA
75 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2002 : 8:49:14 PM
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I got a question about the state bids. I am sure wagonmaster can tell me the anwser. I know in FL they do "state bids" and wagonmaster gets Amtrans. Then I talked to this other guy in Polk County FL and they have 02 Thomas Saf-t-liners ER. So when you say state bid does the state come up with the specs and send it out International, BB, and Thomas and then they come back to the state with a price. Then each county can order whatever they want under the bid price? Confusing question? Let me know and I can try and explain it again.
Chris
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 04:51:36 AM
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We bought mostly Bluebird 84 passenger RE's this year(55), but also some International FE's(15) for use with wheelchair lifts.
Basically, we put out a set of specifications for each bus type and their options. The Mfgs. bid on them. We pick what we want(what meets our needs best) from the succesful bidders.
If Polk has some new Thomas units they are probably "stragglers" from the previous bid. I don't recall anyone buying Thomas this year, at least not RE's, because their price was way out of line with everyone else's.
Prices on our bid must be within a few percent to be considered. You could still buy Thomas because they were within that percent, just barely.
The D.O.E. is preparing the new bid as this is written. Normally we would solicit vendors to hold the existing prices and re-new the current bid, but there were a couple of "glitches" in this years bid. They've been fixed for the new bid, I hope!
Joe
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 06:51:53 AM
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quote:
We bought mostly Bluebird 84 passenger RE's this year(55), but also some International FE's(15) for use with wheelchair lifts.
Basically, we put out a set of specifications for each bus type and their options. The Mfgs. bid on them. We pick what we want(what meets our needs best) from the succesful bidders.
If Polk has some new Thomas units they are probably "stragglers" from the previous bid. I don't recall anyone buying Thomas this year, at least not RE's, because their price was way out of line with everyone else's.
Prices on our bid must be within a few percent to be considered. You could still buy Thomas because they were within that percent, just barely.
The D.O.E. is preparing the new bid as this is written. Normally we would solicit vendors to hold the existing prices and re-new the current bid, but there were a couple of "glitches" in this years bid. They've been fixed for the new bid, I hope!
Joe
According to Jason, MDCPS is buying like 10 Saf-T-Liner ERs...they are special needs buses.
Stop at: http://www.buses.cjb.net
Forums: http://thebusboy.proboards2.com
Quote:
"The pacifist's task today is to find a method of helping and healing which provides a revolutionary constructive substitute for war."
-Vera Brittain |
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thomasvista2012
Top Member
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 08:56:22 AM
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That's right Mike. In fact, I was talking to Luke (Carpenter Bus 19). He was in Florida over Easter weekened, he told me that he saw our new ERs being driven down to Miami. They've probably already arrived by now.
The rest of our buses will be 72 passenger Bluebird All-American REs. I don't understand why we just didn't get the lift buses as Bluebirds instead of Thomases. But, that would require Dade County to think, which they never do.
Edited by - thomasvista2012 on 04/02/2002 09:01:11 AM |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 1:03:20 PM
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So for the Florida state bid, do they then select one EF,ER, and Conventional? Whoever has the lowest bid? So then if International was cheapest on the ER the schools would have to buy the International ER, and say Thomas won the conventional bid for the state, all schools would have to buy the Thomas conventional?
Do schools have to buy there buses through the state bid, or can they do it seperate like a lot of districts in other states do?
"Thomas Parking Only- All others will be crushed."
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 2:01:55 PM
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Hello Thomas86a,
I'll take your questions in order:
1. No, we have a menu type bid that allows us to award all the vendors that meet our terms and specifications, providing that the price is within a few percent of the low bid(can't remember the exact percent). This allows us to buy whatever best suits our purpose.
2. If International was cheapest, as you mentioned, there's probably a certain amount of pressure to buy the lowest bid, but it's NOT required. I'm sure you know there are a lot of reasons not to always buy low bid, right? You can split it up however you need to, as we did this year with Bluebird and International.
3. Schools don't buy buses at all, but rather their districts do. Each county in Florida is a separate school district and each does whatever they think they need to. I suppose a district could buy elsewhere, but there really is no need. Our bid is very competitive and prices elsewhere usually can't compete with our bid, since we normally buy 1500 to 2000 buses off this bid per year. If the district for some reason did it's own bid and the prices were higher than the State bid, they would be hard pressed to keep the auditors happy and the Transportation Director's job could be in jeopardy were that the case.
Joe
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 4:43:06 PM
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quote:
I'm sure you know there are a lot of reasons not to always buy low bid, right?
Hey Wagonmaster, I was just wondering what do you mean there is a lot of reasons not to buy low bid? Could you explain this to me thanks!
Also a little off the subject, Joe do you happen to be related to Dannie Reed/ Executive Director of Transportation in DeKalb?
Okay back to the Subject!
quote:
You can split it up however you need to, as we did this year with Bluebird and International.
I know the district I live in which is Fulton, split up their bid. They would sometime get Blue Bird/AmTran, or the Blue Bird/Thomas which is becoming a popularly combo within the district. My thing is here when they get the Blue Bird/Thomas combo they always get 48pass, 48liftpass, and 66pass from Blue Bird and 72pass from Thomas. Something they will get 48pass, 48liftpass, and 72pass from Thomas and 48pass, and 66pass from Blue Bird. Latley they have been getting 84pass from Thomas when they used to get 84pass from AmTran. They might have some newer AmTran or International that I'm not aware of. I know for sure that we don't have any newer Blue Bird All American. I believe 1990 was the last time we receive Blue Bird All American. Now in 1991 we receive some Wayne Transit that was the first and the last time we receive them. Sorry for getting off the subject again but my question was why is that the district never get 66 pass from Thomas? We have some 66pass from Thomas like 30 unit. Do they still make the 66pass bus size?
The AmTran buses we have 48pass (only 13 unit), 48liftpass (only 10 unit), and 84pass (only 5 unit).
The Thomas buses we have 48pass, 48liftpass, 66pass (only 30 unit), 72 pass, and 84pass.
The Blue Bird buses we have 48pass, 48liftpass, 65pass, 66pass, 72pass, and 84pass.
The Carpenter buses we have 48pass, 48liftpass, 65pass, 66pass, and 72pass.
The Wayne buses we have 84pass.
The collins buses we have 16liftpass (only 4 unit)
~Georgia Drivers Together We Fly High~ |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 5:52:03 PM
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HI Thomas00,
Funny you should ask about Danny Reed. I was raised and educated in DeKalb county schools, back when Jim Cherry was the Supt. Went to Druid Hills High with Cherry's kids. But, no, we're not related. I met Danny (I believe) in Tulsa when we were there for the grand opening of the new International plant. We rode over to the plant on the same bus from the hotel.
Some reasons you may not want to buy low bid are:
1. Low price doesn't mean "best" price every time. If manufacturers cut corners in an effort to be competitive, they might tend to cut too much quality from their final product.
2. Even if the price is low and the quality is ok, the support from that particular manufacturer might not be what it could or should be. (who cares what it costs if you can't keep it on the road?)
3. Sometimes the manufacturers specifications differ in a manner not to your liking. For example, wheelbase too long on a particular body style or size that may not make certain turns comfortably enough for your drivers. (This is kind of why we stay with the International FE's for our lift buses- we want our drivers to all be familiar with them). Or, the unit could be underpowered, etc.
4. Even if all seems to be well with the low bidder, maybe their A/C system isn't to your liking, or there is no support close enough to your facilities.
You must weigh all the variables and only THEN can you decide what's best for your district!
Hope this helps.
Joe
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 6:30:30 PM
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Thanks for answering my questions Joe. When I said schools I meant district, here we have very few districts that are an entire county.
Thomas00
Yes as Joe said there are numerous reasons why one might not take the lowest bid.
We purchased Blue Birds from 89-97, now these buses weren't the worst (except for 91), but there quality was fair, and they just "did the job" for us. We had an 86 Thomas that was holding up better than the 89 and 91 Birds with the same type maintance, well in 1998 Thomas did underbid Blue Bird, and we purchased a Thomas Built Bus again. This bus was built strong, served our purposes well, and had low-maintnance costs. In 1999 Thomas did not underbid Blue Bird, but our superintendant along with the supervisor was happy with this bus, and we paid a little extra for the Thomas/International. Last year we purchased two buses, an International IC, which was the lowest bid, and another Thomas/International, I know the Thomas/International was the highest bid, but that combination is what we like. We bought the IC to give it a try, we havn't had problems with it yet, and now that the Thomas/International is no longer available, it is a possiblity for 03. Because our Thomas bodies have held up so well, we are also considering the Thomas/Freightliner, personally I didn't think this would be considered since the Board of Education(the ones who ultimatly deceide) basically said only International chassis. It is not yet time to deceide, but when they do deceide I am hopeing for the Thomas/Freightliner.
We are a small district, and we do not have a mechanic, we only have a supervisor who serves as every position in the transporation department including sub driver/dispatcher/mechanic(on the small things)/and driver supervisor. We can NOT afford to be dealing with problems all the time, and that extra $500 to $1500 pays off in the long run.
"Thomas Parking Only- All others will be crushed."
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 7:43:37 PM
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Thanks Joe and thomas86_a for the information!
Joe you went to Druid Hills High! Wow! So you were rise in DeKalb, which part did you live in? I have family that live in Stone Mountain in the Hidden Hill sub. Man what did DeKalb county buses look like than? I think you would be suprise what kind of buses they have now! Also they just receive some Saf-T-Liner too, hopefully I will get to see the Saf soon! I have questions for you, if u don't mind.
Do you remember DeKalb older Thomas ER?
How did Fulton county buses look back than?
Also did u guy use to play againt Russell High in football? (There is no longer a Russell High, College Park High, or Hapville High. They were all combine into one school,it now called Tri-Cities High it also a new building too.)
Glad to hear from a fomer Georgian!
~Georgia Drivers Together We Fly High~ |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2002 : 05:09:35 AM
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Hi Thomas00,
You must remember that when I rode the bus was a LONG time ago! We had Chevrolet chassis with Superior bodies, 409 engines and 4 speed transmissions, no power steering and hydraulic brakes. The driver (Cox was his name) would flat make you walk home if you gave him any grief!! Guess what, nobody ever did give him a hard time...Went on my first "road trip" in his bus, a football game in Jonesboro to play Robt.E.Lee high (we won 7-6!)
My wife and I grew up in No. DeKalb county. When we married we bought our first house just inside I-285 off of Ashford-Dunwoody Road before there was a Perimeter Mall! We later moved to Stone Mountain, where my sons went to school. We moved to Florida from there in '86. We get back at least once a year, so I'm familiar with what buses they run there. Still have a lot of friends near the Montreal Road facility.
Joe
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cowlitzcoach
Advanced Member
USA
325 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2002 : 06:58:23 AM
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Here in WA, you do not have to purchase the state bid bus. The kicker is if you don't, you won't receive anything more for reimbursement from the state than what the state bid bus cost.
For a lot of districts, when they purchase a bus it is important to have a common fleet. I can think of one fleet of over 100 buses that is 100% Thomas and another large fleet that is 100% Blue Bird.
I know those two districts will pay a premium to purchase "their" brand just to keep things the same.
Since the school bus market is very competitive, if a manufacturer doesn't get the low bid in a particular year you can bet the losers will still sell a bus pretty close to that price in order to get the business.
The downside is any option not on the spe'c list becomes very exspensive.
Mark O.
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jimbo20
Senior Member
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2002 : 08:15:49 AM
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TIDESINN2
ALL BUSES BUILT FOR USE IN FLORIDA MUST MEET FL SPECS. THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM BUT IT HELPS D.O.E. AS WELL AS THE DISTRICTS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.
THE STATE SPEC ALSO SAYS THAT ALL BUSES BE DELIVERED WITH ALL PUBLICATIONS PERTAINING TO THAT BUS. IE. DRIVERS MANUALS, PARTS MANUALS, WIRING DIAGRAMS ECT.
FOR A LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE HERE GO TO
[WWW.SCHOOL-BUS.ORG] FLORIDA SCHOOL BUS SPECS 2000
JIMBO
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State Bids
