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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2011 : 3:35:51 PM
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If you listen to these two starters back-to-back, they have a resemblance to each other.
Open these two videos in separate windows/tabs/whatever you do. Pause the first one at 0:08 and the second one at 0:30, then listen to them both one right after another.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-ayfsbnU5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPuU37UMVlE
Is there some starter/design sharing going on, like Ford making Navistar's starters or vise versa, or is it characteristic of V8s to make starters sound that way? Or is it just a coincidence that they sound the same?
Aside from this specific issue, feel free to discuss anything starter-related here! |
Edited by - 08 Thomas EF on 02/24/2011 3:39:53 PM
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Kyle51895
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 3:53:39 PM
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| The second video is mine, and just for a little extra info, the Mustang has a 4.6L V8. From what I've seen/heard, the 5.4L V8 Ford puts in some of it's trucks sound quite similar. Since the VT365 is based on the newer Powerstroke, I'm pretty sure they'd throw their starter on there to save producing dyes and all that jazz for another starter. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 6:03:19 PM
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| Besides having way too much time on your hands these things are both V8 engines for one. And secondly they both have a gear reduction starter. Ford and Navastar do not make their starters, so they could be manufactured by the same company. (I don't even know who makes them anymore. Delco, Prestolite?) Find an old 440 Crysler (other Crysler V8s from this era sound the same I think) from say.... 1972-3 era. Tell me what you hear. I remember when we would all make fun of those Dodge/ Chrysler guys and now they all have those starters, or at least the same design idea. |
Bryan |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 6:38:53 PM
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^ So they could be the same third-party starter? That makes sense.
For the record, the PowerStroke is the VT365 in disguise (the other way around from what you suggested).
I know that the VT-365/PowerStroke 6.0L came into Ford pickups before they went in buses for the 2005 model year. I'm not sure when they started going into UPS trucks and vans, though. So perhaps another way of looking it were that Ford trucks were the first vehicles to host the 365, and like Kyle said, Ford decided to use "their" starter on it, and Navistar ended up using the "Ford" starter on all of the 365s. This is just speculation, of course.
Maybe finding out that they're identical starters (if they are) will help someone in the future. Or maybe not... bwest, you make it sound like it's crazy that we're trying to find out the origins of these starters.  |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 8:15:25 PM
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No, not crazy. I just find it a waste of time if you don't have a reason to be doing so. I don't know if the 4.6 and the VT365 would have the same starter. It seems to me that the one on the 365 would have to be much beefier to hold up to the rigors of diesel compression.
A way to settle all of this would be to go talk to your local starter rebuilder and he can tell you right off what is going on. I'll try to ask the next time I'm over at mine. |
Bryan |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 05:22:08 AM
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Because of limited room in their application, Ford used a smaller starter on their version of the VT365 (the Powerstroke 6.0) and mounted it above the "upper oil pan" on the passenger side of the engine block.
On Internationals VT365, the power steering and fuel pumps are mounted in that location and a much larger, generally Delco or Leece-Neville starter is mounted lower because of the larger medium duty truck flywheel housing/engine oil pan and on the drivers side.
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Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 02/25/2011 05:24:25 AM |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 05:36:43 AM
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| Thanks, Fastback! So International's 365 could have either Delco or Leece-Neville? Did that depend on application as well, or the year? I guess that would explain why some of them sound more like Fords than others. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 05:50:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 08 Thomas EF
Thanks, Fastback! So International's 365 could have either Delco or Leece-Neville? Did that depend on application as well, or the year? I guess that would explain why some of them sound more like Fords than others.
On medium duty trucks there is generally a standard starter and optional choices. The VT365 was no exception, our VT365 2008 IC bus was ordered with a Leece-Neville starter.
One current IC bus price source shows Delco 29MT starters as standard equipment and Leece-Neville M100R starters as a $24.00 option. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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Topic |
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Starters
