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Dvorak
Senior Member
United States
95 Posts |
 Posted - 02/07/2008 : 06:44:03 AM
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I have two 2000 IH busses with T444E's that have been running hot (pushing 230F) since I took over the fleet in 03. In temperatures over 60F, they like to get really warm. I've installed the updated fan and fan clutch, and I've tried new t-stats from the dealer. I've also replaced the coolant temp switch on one of the busses thinking that might be the problem. Both busses have had new radiators and water pumps installed because they leaked. That did nothing to help the overheat problem. I thought the problem might be a lack of air flow while stopping and starting to pick up kids, so I installed two auxillery electric fans on each bus and that helped, but didn't fix the problem. Possibly unrelated but noteworthy, I've replaced injectors in both busses. The other common problem with these two busses is an intermittent 525 code that makes the bus almost impossible to start in temps around 35-40F unless the block heaters are plugged in. I've taken it to the dealership for this problem, and they can't find anything wrong.
Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated. |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 08:09:34 AM
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| No help with the starting problem but I had a 97 and a 98 T444e that I fought the overheating problem for a few years. I finally gave up and replaced the viscous fan clutches with Horton electromagnetic on off clutches that operate off a temperature sensor installed near the dipstick tube. One nice feature of these clutches is that the harness allows you to have a switch near the driver to also turn the fan on manually. |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
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Bassman
Top Member
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 08:21:37 AM
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| We had a front engine transit with a 466 that we fought that problem on. I had my parts guy at the IH dealer do a little research and come up with a viscous fan clutch that kicked in at a cooler temp and it took care of the problem until the bus was traded. I believe I picked the one that was 10 degrees cooler. |
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contactbluebird
Senior Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 2:16:40 PM
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| We had 1997 T444E that was town route buses and they ran hot all the time. Several thermostats later, I done some diggin and come up with the low temp high output clutches. Sounds like a freight train commin down the road, but it works! :) |
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busgeek++
Advanced Member
United States
253 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 5:47:26 PM
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| I agree, a T444E will get hot easily unless cooled well, so the fan clutch is critical. In our 97-98 AmTran REs, the 444s run 210* all the time, sometimes a little less in the winter, in the summer, the fans are almost constant on, and if it's hot enough (85-90* outside) they'll hit 230* under load. |
Buses are not a way of life, they are life |
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Dvorak
Senior Member
United States
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 04:50:18 AM
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| Thanks for the replies. It sounds like an electric fan clutch is the way to go. Is this a dealership item or am I looking for something aftermarket? |
"It's cranking, but it won't turn over..." |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 07:36:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dvorak
Thanks for the replies. It sounds like an electric fan clutch is the way to go. Is this a dealership item or am I looking for something aftermarket?
Its an EC-450 Horton fan drive.
I would get a ZBH996124 retrofit kit from an International dealer. It is listed for 2/94-11/97 but will work on all T444Es. The advantage of this kit is you don't have to reprogram the ECM and the harness includes hookups for manual control.
Or on a newer than 11/97 you can order the individual drive, harness and relay and operate it through the ECM like it was as a factory installed option, but like I said reprograming ECM is needed.
If its a rear engine bus, the fan drive circuit should already be turned on in the ECM |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
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rustywrench
Active Member
United States
38 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 11:25:55 AM
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| I had a 1997 3800 with a DT466 doing this and was advised by our local IH dealer to install this electromagnetic fan kit #ZBH996128 - fan, #ZBH996033 - switch, #ZBH994187 - harness, to correct the over heating problem. I had good luck and have seen fuel savings, now I spec. buses with air or electrical fan clutch. |
Edited by - rustywrench on 02/08/2008 3:25:21 PM |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 3:04:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rustywrench
I had a 1997 3800 with a DT466 doing this and was advised by our local IH dealer to install this electromagnetic fan kit #ZBH996128 - fan, #ZBH996033 - switch, #ZBH994187 - harness, to correct the over heating problem. I had good luck and have seen fuel savings, that now I spec. buses with air or electrical fan clutch.
We do also.
Just note that the fan clutch on the DT466 has left hand threads and on the T444E it has right hand threads so they are differant part numbers. |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
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jcrocker21
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2011 : 3:05:48 PM
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| Just started my membership and looking through the forums here at yourd problem. I had a 1998 international 3400 mid bus that i bought used and since the first day I drove it home if I really ran her hard it would run hot and the fan stayed on almost the whole time unless I let my foot out of it!! I started with cleaning the radiator and air to air cooler to no help. I finally decided to have the radiator cleaned and upon taking out the radiator I found that the lower air to air rubber elbow had a crack causing turbo air/boost to be lost and causing the engine to over fuel for the air mixture. After just replacing the elbow and putting everything back together that bus ran at a normal 180 all the time and had more power then I would of every thought after buying it with the problem!! Do you have any power loss and or checked all your air to air hoses and clamps?? |
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bulletLS1
New Member
5 Posts |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2011 : 5:25:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by origcharger
Its an EC-450 Horton fan drive.
I would get a ZBH996124 retrofit kit from an International dealer. It is listed for 2/94-11/97 but will work on all T444Es. The advantage of this kit is you don't have to reprogram the ECM and the harness includes hookups for manual control.
Or on a newer than 11/97 you can order the individual drive, harness and relay and operate it through the ECM like it was as a factory installed option, but like I said reprograming ECM is needed.
If its a rear engine bus, the fan drive circuit should already be turned on in the ECM
I apologize for bumping such an old topic, but I have a question relating to the overheating issues. I recently purchased a 1997 AmTran RE with the T444E. It's going to see a considerable amount of highway driving in its second life with me. Would you recommend installing the Horton fan drive now, before experiencing any issues, or would that be over-kill? Are there any other preventative measures I can take that might be more practical at this point in time (ex., the previously-mentioned installation of auxiliary electric fans)? As I mentioned, I haven't had any problems, yet. I'd kind-of like to keep it that way, though, if I can.  |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2011 : 04:29:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Buskid
quote:
Originally posted by origcharger
Its an EC-450 Horton fan drive.
I would get a ZBH996124 retrofit kit from an International dealer. It is listed for 2/94-11/97 but will work on all T444Es. The advantage of this kit is you don't have to reprogram the ECM and the harness includes hookups for manual control.
Or on a newer than 11/97 you can order the individual drive, harness and relay and operate it through the ECM like it was as a factory installed option, but like I said reprograming ECM is needed.
If its a rear engine bus, the fan drive circuit should already be turned on in the ECM
I apologize for bumping such an old topic, but I have a question relating to the overheating issues. I recently purchased a 1997 AmTran RE with the T444E. It's going to see a considerable amount of highway driving in its second life with me. Would you recommend installing the Horton fan drive now, before experiencing any issues, or would that be over-kill? Are there any other preventative measures I can take that might be more practical at this point in time (ex., the previously-mentioned installation of auxiliary electric fans)? As I mentioned, I haven't had any problems, yet. I'd kind-of like to keep it that way, though, if I can.
I have no experiance with the RE version of the T444E |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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C.HARDY
Advanced Member
354 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2011 : 10:08:28 AM
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| If its running fine leave it alone... |
"Hardybusman" |
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T444E overheat problems
