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Brian M. Babcock
Advanced Member
USA
278 Posts |
 Posted - 10/03/2001 : 05:41:59 AM
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Does your state still have 4 light warning systems? If no, when did they switch to the 8 light system? In Ohio all buses built after April 1, 1978 have had the 8-way lights. Prior to that date only the four ways were required. Visors and black paint behind the lights were also optional. Visors are still optional to this day but black paint became mandatory with the switch to 8-ways in '78.
Edited by - Brian M. Babcock on 10/03/2001 06:21:03 AM |
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 06:51:15 AM
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In Michigan we were required to spec all school buses with the 8 lamp warning system in 1990. The state did not offer reimbursement for anyone who retrofitted their fleet. The districts had to eat the costs out of their own budget.
The stop arms became law for Michigan in 1992 and agin, the same reimbursement policy went into effect. If the school wanted to add the stop arms they had to eat the costs themself.
Black paint is required around the warning lights so that from all points around the warning light itself (red and amber) there must be at least 3 inches of black within the light itself.
Crossing gates and arms have not been required as of yet but certainly in discussion. Hopefully the state will mandate it soon.
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 07:27:28 AM
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I am also from Michigan, we added the converter kits to most of our buses in 1992 along with a stop arm. There were only three buses we didn't convert. One was being scraped in 1993, and two were spares that were old.
I still see many buses in Michigan that still have the 4 way system, many schools didn't convert there buses.
86-A It will go in circles around your bus.
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 08:11:53 AM
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In maryland, we didnt start buying 8 ways until 1986. We didnt start buying the stop arms until 1988. ( 2 ) Roof hatches started in 1990, and one push out sash on each side started in 1996. Retrofitting of the stop arms and 8 ways were in place on buses as old as 1980. I think this was done over a long span of time between 1989 and 1994.
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 08:12:51 AM
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CT requires 8-ways on all buses built after 1984. I've only seen 1 bus that didn't have them, and that was an early 84 model that was retired a year ago.
All CT buses I've seen have some amount of black around the lights, and visors. I'm not sure what the requirement is.
Also, the only bus I've seen w/out a stop arm was the 84 that was retired last year.
—Phil
"It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird." |
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thomasvista2012
Top Member
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 11:46:26 AM
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All of Florida's buses have had 8-ways since the late 70s, the earliest I can recall.
Sorry to sound arrogant, but Florida has been way ahead of lot of you guys! We've spec'd 8-ways, DUAL stop arms for a long time, and although crossing arms weren't standard til 93, a lot of districts got retrofits. We've mandated strobe lights since 90, lemme see if there's anything else. Oh, and once you step into Florida, you will NOT see any old junk buses. All of our buses are 15 years old at the MOST.
I know I'm off topic, but I'm just letting you guys know we Floridians are very proud of our buses and how safe they are 
"Gotta love those buses!" |
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Bus Boy 39
Top Member
USA
1315 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 11:46:52 AM
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I still can't see how you use the 4-way lights. Do you activate them as far back as you would activate the amber/yellow warning lights??
 "Gotta Love Those Birdies!" |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 12:28:05 PM
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Washington State has required 8-ways since 1975 or '76, and every bus sold after that date had to have 8-ways installed. On the older buses, the "grandfather clause" took effect and then it was up to the district to convert them or not. Most didn't, so we still have a large number of fleets in my area that still use pre-'77 buses that don't have the 8-ways.
The stop paddle has been required in our state since the dawn of school bus travel I think, because I have a photo of a 1950's Gillig next to a 1960 Crown and both buses are from White Pass School District in WA. They both have stop paddles.
Oregon on the other hand has required stop paddles and 8-ways on their buses regardless of age. I have a few photos of some Gilligs on my website and a photo of a KW Pacific bus from Oregon - both buses are vintage late-'50s and early '70s, and they have the 8-ways installed.
And like Jason says, we're ahead of ya!
"Preserving America's best - THE GILLIG! - THE BEST NEVER REST" http://www.geocities.com/gilligcoaches/ |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 2:01:12 PM
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In California, we still have quite a few school buses with just the 4 light warning system. Only buses manufactured after a certain date (July, 1993) are required to have the amber lights in addition to the reds.
As for stop arms on school buses in Calif., only ones manufactured after September 1992 are required to have at least one.
A vast majority of our field trip buses are still pre-1993s and only have the reds.
C-ya.
The Buskid - CrownBus32@aol.com - http://www.crownbus.com |
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s_adams1
Active Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 2:20:06 PM
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quote:
Washington State has required 8-ways since 1975 or '76, and every bus sold after that date had to have 8-ways installed. On the older buses, the "grandfather clause" took effect and then it was up to the district to convert them or not. Most didn't, so we still have a large number of fleets in my area that still use pre-'77 buses that don't have the 8-ways.
The stop paddle has been required in our state since the dawn of school bus travel I think, because I have a photo of a 1950's Gillig next to a 1960 Crown and both buses are from White Pass School District in WA. They both have stop paddles.
Oregon on the other hand has required stop paddles and 8-ways on their buses regardless of age. I have a few photos of some Gilligs on my website and a photo of a KW Pacific bus from Oregon - both buses are vintage late-'50s and early '70s, and they have the 8-ways installed.
And like Jason says, we're ahead of ya!
"Preserving America's best - THE GILLIG! - THE BEST NEVER REST" http://www.geocities.com/gilligcoaches/
Steve
I think that its only been within the last 10 to 15 years or so that Oregon has required stop arms. I went to high school down in Grants Pass in the early eighties and non of our busses had stop arms. It wasn't until I had moved up here to Washington and had graduated from H.S. that I started seeing Oregon busses having stop arms.
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 2:59:30 PM
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As people have said MI still allows the four lights. All of our buses from 1988 (oldest we have) to the 1989s have the four lights. I converted my 1985, however. We usually turn them on at the same distance you'd turn on the yellows. What else would we do, anyway?
Stop at: www.buses.cjb.net |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 7:24:13 PM
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Yes if you have only 4 ways, you turn them on the same distance away that you would if you were activating your ambers.
Actually I noticed the first few years MI had ambers that more people would actually try and pass the bus before it stoped. With the ambers on they can legally go around the bus, so they do because they don't want to wait. With reds only they knew that red meant to stop so less people would try and pass before the bus stoped.
It isn't really that states are behind in specing 8 ways, it's what they thought worked best. Wisconsin still specs 4 way reds, they are currently working on the 8 way system, but it hasn't passed yet, and they are not sure if it will.
They have the theory that more people will try and pass if they see ambers instead of reds while the bus is still moving.
Look at it this way, when you are in your car just before the stop light turns yellow, if you are at the point where you can make it before it turns red, or you have enough time to stop, what do you choose? Since most of you are bus drivers, and used to driving a bus you might choose the safer alternative, stoping. But most people on the road prefer to speed up a little to "squeeze the lemons" so that they don't have to wait at a light. The same can happen with a bus, the ambers come on so they speed up and pass so that they don't have to wait. When motorists see the reds they know that they have to stop, of course all drivers don't but the majority do.
You may not agree with me, and that is fine but I have noticed that over the years.
As for dual stop arms I am for those so I can say that most states are behind on them. Motorists that are driving to close to the back of the bus, and then try to pass don't see a stop arm until they are all the way into the other lane, and then they are stoped on the side of the bus.
86-A It will go in circles around your bus.
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MI bus fan
Active Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2001 : 09:35:41 AM
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Every now and then I still see a 4-way bus roaming the streets of Michigan, but it keeps getting rare. My home district just got rid of its last retrofitted bus (a 90 AA). A sign of the times, I guess. But I suppose it's all for the better.
I remember in the early 90s when Michigan made the switch to 8-ways. At the time, the state said that busses with the old 4-way system had to use the hazard lights when approaching a stop, then turn on the 4-ways to pick up the kids. I always thought that looked silly.
Blue Bird rules! |
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Ricky
Advanced Member
USA
352 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2001 : 10:36:47 AM
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Arkansas has required the 8 - light system since January 1, 1972. Unless it is an old church bus or something, I never see a 4-light bus in use in this state.
Stephen R. Adamson (AmTran11) |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2001 : 1:27:08 PM
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I've never heard of having to turn on the hazards and then the reds. That must have been a very short lived law. I actually never rode an 8 light bus until 1995. We had 8 light buses, but we still had mostly 80's buses which still had the 4 lights. Now, most of our buses are 8 light buses.
Stop at: www.buses.cjb.net |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2001 : 7:22:59 PM
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It was short. The reason was because if you had a bus with ambers you do it the same as you do today, but if you didn't have ambers you were to turn your hazards on the same distance from the stop you would have in previous years with reds, or at the current time with 8 ways. Then when you stoped you switched hazards off, and turned on reds. Very few drivers ever followed the law, I didn't have a converter kit for two years, but I continued to operate my reds as I did before the dumb hazard idea came in.
Michigan drivers are taught that when they saw a bus with its hazards on they are to proceed around it with caution. Well if you want to let someone know you are stoping the bus to board/deboard students you shouldn't use the lights that would tell them they can go around the bus.
86-A It will go in circles around your bus.
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2001 : 7:30:20 PM
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Michigan ran the hazard law for roughly 2 years only.
Michigan wanted the ambers and stopping arms to try and maintain a universal lighting system with the majority of the states nationwide.
Yes they prooved to be safer however educating the public is like trying to find a needle ina haystack. Keeping as much universal as possible is always the easiest route.
Many districts are spec'ng the dual stop arms now in Southern Michigan. It's nice to see districts exceeding the minimum and doing this.
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2001 : 7:43:20 PM
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It would be nice if our district speced dual stop arms, a crossing arm, and maybe other options like strobe lights, but Class D size schools have a hard time funding transportation. Currently they are spending extra money on the inside of the bus, and doing quite well. I think if they were to start specing extras on the outside the inside would become a base model like we were using previous to the early 90's.
86-A It will go in circles around your bus.
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Mike
New Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2001 : 6:20:10 PM
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After reading the postings on this subject, it is apparent that the uniformity of school bus equipment and the student transportation industry throughout the US is still one of the single most perplexing problems when dealing with the general motoring public. A couple of examples: Red Warning Lites: IL - 8 lite(amber/red); WI - 4 lite(red) or 4 lite(red wigwag) no amber lites on rear of bus at all. Strobe lites: IL - some have and some don't, use only when conditions warrant their use and restricted use in certain areas; WI - All new busses have and if the bus is equipped with strobe lite, it must be on at all times. School bus driver licensing requirements: Even thou the US has been on the CDL system for sometime now, every state has different requirements and who is responsible for their licensing. Until such time as all school busses in the United States are equipped and operated; and all school bus drivers are subject to the same rules, laws or directives; the transportation of students will always be lacking. There is a time and place for state's rights, but not when it comes to the safe transportation of the children.
Edited by - mike on 10/05/2001 6:21:25 PM |
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BusCritic
Active Member
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2001 : 3:28:37 PM
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We now only have one bus left with a converter kit on it. The last bus we purchased with 4 way reds was an 89 Blue Bird International. Our next bus was a 1991 Int/BlueBird, it had the 8 ways, but no stop arm because they weren't required in MI until 1992 because it became a federal law that all buses have them.
The bus I rode for most of my days in school was a 1986 Thomas International it had a converter kit and stop arm put on. It was retired in the spring of 2000, the converter kit was taken off, and so was the stop arm. They replaced the overhead reds on the back of the bus, but didn't put the original visors back on. They didn't put any lights on the front.
The oldest bus we had was an 85 Chevy/Blue Bird it just received the black paint last week. They didn't bother to remove the converter kit from that bus, they just painted a Black strip over the School Bus letters, and the warning lights.
First I was mad when they took the 86 Thomas out of service 1.5 years before the 85 Blue Bird. I think the 86 had more miles on it, I am not sure, but the 86 had a few problems the clutch was wore out, and it always smoked everytime the driver shifted gears I am assuming it was burning oil.
The other thing I don't understand is the procedure in taking these buses out of service. On both buses they painted the District name black which they always do, but on the 86 they didn't black out the School Bus letters, maybe they will if someone ever buys it. Then on the 85 I don't know why they didn't remove the converter kit they just painted black over it.
BusDiva can you help me with what has to be done in MI when you take a bus out of service. I am assuming you have to remove the School Bus letter but I am not sure because they didn't do it on the 86- but that might be because no one has bought the thing.
If it's not a Thomas Built Bus, I would rather walk to school. |
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2001 : 5:27:02 PM
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Hi Buscritic
Yes, SCHOOL BUS should eb removed but many districts replace many buses at once that one or two often get ignored.
Woudl anythign happen if they didn't remove? most likely not since the district name is removed. Can legally something happen if the district didn't remove it? Sure, it very well could come back on the district.
Now, check this out: Since many districts are replacing well maintained vehicles, many districts are buying well maintained used bsues for spare buses and activity buses <> With this is mind, the asnwer to yuor question may also be that they will not paint over SCHOOL BUS until the bus is sold.
The district name needs to be removed or blacked out, the license plate removed, state inspection sticker removed and all owned district items in the bus that were not original <>
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 11:25:26 AM
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BusDiva,
Why can't the district leave some of their items in it? I know it'd be a waste of money, but why would it be illegal for them to leave the flares, triangles, fire extinguisher, and first aid kit in there?
Stop at: www.buses.cjb.net |
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 12:08:20 PM
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It is not illegal but it is recommended since they were orignal items to the bus from the district. Many schools feel they are just giving money away by leaving the equipment in the buses(taxpayers money)
It's the little things that count |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 12:24:26 PM
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This may be off topic, but I'll stick my two cents in.
When I bought my Gillig in 1998, it came with all the safety equipment attached, like stop paddle, warning lights, and came with the flare kit.
Now as far as removing the words "SCHOOL BUS"... I agree it shall be removed, but that they shall be painted over in yellow, instead of the black paint over like most districts use. The black is too hard to clear off, especially when someone like me wants to retain the area between the flashers a school bus yellow. The black presents too much of an obstacle, and often it can take up to one can of school bus yellow spray paint to paint over it.
In cases where the buyer wishes to restore the bus to the way it left the factory floor, then it shouldn't be removed, but there should be some asdsurance that it will never be used as a school bus again, be it in writing from the owner to the DMV (or here in Washington, the DOL (Department of Licensing, Motor Vehicle Registration)) or any other methods. I have seen quite a few people here in Washington keep their buses intact for restoration purposes, and the words "SCHOOL BUS" are left intact without the paint-over bands.
The thing that should be removed - regardless of purpose - is the district name following retirement of the bus to the auction block.
Hmmm....looks like my two cents turned into two dollars worth. Ooops!
"Preserving America's best - THE GILLIG! - THE BEST NEVER REST" http://www.geocities.com/gilligcoaches/
Edited by - Steven A.Rosenow on 10/07/2001 12:26:59 PM |
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MongoKen
Senior Member
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 12:25:24 PM
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In VA when a bus is removed from service the district name, bus number and "SCHOOL BUS" is blacked out. The warning lights completly removed and the stop sign/crossing gate is taken off (not the whole stop arm unit, just the sign). We also remove the crossover mirrors. All this equipment is placed inside the bus, prior to it being sold.
"Superior Buses..A Legend of the Past" |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 12:37:04 PM
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we retire like usually 40 to 80 buses a year, and its just a lot easier and cheaper to quickly slap a black band across the "school bus" section. ITs not really much cheaper I will grant you that, but black paint is easier to come by.
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Topic |
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Anyone still have 4 light warning systems?
