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busguyuk
Active Member
United Kingdom
31 Posts |
 Posted - 11/24/2001 : 06:59:24 AM
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Question for debate.
Should there be one common set of laws relating to vehicle specifications, driver history checks, maintenance programmes, etc, etc. instead of some of the varied nonsenses that exist around the country today?
One example of the many, DRIVER HISTORY CHECKS. The driver's job is the most crucial of all jobs in the industry and we should have a comprehensive background check to eliminate the 1% or much less who perhaps have an unsavory history.
FACT Only just over half the states we operate in require a criminal history and fingerprint check to the state authority and the FBI! 18% DO NOT REQUIRE A CRIMINAL HISTORY CHECK AT ALL!
How many children does that leave at risk? For such a progressive, safety conscious country this is an accident waiting to happen. Surely the US is capable of coming up with one set of simple rules countrywide that provide the necessary safeguards for the 'precious cargo' both in driver terms and vehicle specifications. It is not a complex industry to manage properly so how about some positive action?
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2001 : 07:54:46 AM
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I agree with you on vehicle specifications. Currently, school bus manufacturers have to custom-build every single bus to meet different state specs. There are literally tens of thousands of options.
As one example, for the wiring of the 8-way/overhead/SOS/stop lights, there are 50 different requirements, and 50 different wiring diagrams.
There's a reason that every bus costs $60,000 to $80,000 and comes from the factory with dozens of recalls and poor quality control. An engineer from one of the "Big 3" of buses recently told me that it's more like a blacksmith shop than an assembly line. They're getting better at making everything more efficient, but it's still not easy with the number of different standards to comply with.
If we standardize equipment requirements, the manufacturers will be able to turn their attention to quality control and efficiency, economies of scale will make the prices of buses drop significantly, and in turn, school transportation operations will have more money to spend on important things like driver retention and safety training.
—Phil
"It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird." |
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busguyuk
Active Member
United Kingdom
31 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2001 : 08:16:04 AM
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Phil
You are not wierd to have an interest in buses, but you must half believe you are to use it as a tag line! If everyone was the same this world would not have progressively developed the way it has. You need enthusiasts in every area of life because with their dedication they push the barriers out and improve beyond the norm. You stick to your dedication to do what you enjoy! Believe me, if your job is enjoyable to the point of it being an extension of your hobby then your working life will be very rewarding for you. You will do that bit more to please your customer as it is not 'just work'.
The points you make in your reply are extremely valid. We SHOULD cut the crap regarding this multitude of differing specs and concentrate on a high quality vehicle built strictly for 'fitness for purpose'.
"You only live once so go for it!"
Edited by - busguyuk on 11/27/2001 11:43:06 AM
Edited by - busguyuk on 11/27/2001 11:44:48 AM |
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thomasvista2012
Top Member
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2001 : 08:56:17 AM
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Phil,
I don't think that nationwide vehicle specifications would do that much good. It's a good idea, but in reality, it's not feasibile.
You have buses operating in different climates, geographies, and terrains. Lets say that national spec was heated mirrors and insulation for the entire roof. A bus operator in New York might appreciate it because of the weather. But down here in Florida, that is just extra, uneeded equipment that equates to more $$$ for us to spend.
Lets say nation specs are air-ride suspension. For the urban streets down here in Miami, that's a godsend. However, the air ride suspension does no good to a bus operating on dirt roads in the Mid-West or mountain roads in California.
You could have a list of specs for vehicles that are part of a national consensus, but still, there will always be a need for additional specs for different operating conditions. So therefore, a set of national laws for vehicle specs is unfeasible.
If it's big and yellow, then it's a school bus!
http://www.geocities.com/jasonsbuspage |
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2001 : 09:04:51 AM
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Well those things are options, that can be chosen by the district based on their needs. I'm talking about standards for things like lights, emergency exits, stop arms, crossing gates, etc. I think the school bus manufacturing process should be more like the car manufacturing process--it would increase efficiency and decrease cost.
—Phil
"It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird." |
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busguyuk
Active Member
United Kingdom
31 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2001 : 09:08:05 AM
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Jason ThomasVista2012
Your points are valid but specs even differ wildly even in areas of similar climate and operating terrain. 'Constant improvement' should be the name of the game but could there be any vested interests out there who make money/protect their jobs because of the unnecessary complication of it all?
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SchoolBusCharter
Senior Member
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2001 : 6:56:59 PM
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There needs to be more common specs, then so many different per state. As for criminal records checks, I feel after 9-11, you'll see 100% security driver checks.
Ryan Mathews |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2001 : 6:10:14 PM
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About as good as you're going to do on this issue is to get your state to develop state specific specifications like Florida, Kentucky, West Virginia, etc. That way the mfgs. can at least build a few hundred buses alike and your state will be the beneficiary in terms of lower prices. 2012 and others make valid points about different items not being needed in some geographical areas, so there won't ever be a national spec. There are national standards now, but they can be improved upon by adding whatever your state decides it needs as standard equipment. Even then there will be districts within any state that will add options to better serve it's needs. An approved option list also goes a long way in helping to "standardize" buses from a particular state, keeping this philosophy healthy and the cost savings intact.
Joe
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2001 : 7:30:49 PM
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quote:
I don't think that nationwide vehicle specifications would do that much good. It's a good idea, but in reality, it's not feasibile.
You have buses operating in different climates, geographies, and terrains. Lets say that national spec was heated mirrors and insulation for the entire roof. A bus operator in New York might appreciate it because of the weather. But down here in Florida, that is just extra, uneeded equipment that equates to more $$$ for us to spend.
Lets say nation specs are air-ride suspension. For the urban streets down here in Miami, that's a godsend. However, the air ride suspension does no good to a bus operating on dirt roads in the Mid-West or mountain roads in California.
You could have a list of specs for vehicles that are part of a national consensus, but still, there will always be a need for additional specs for different operating conditions. So therefore, a set of national laws for vehicle specs is unfeasible.
If it's big and yellow, then it's a school bus!
http://www.geocities.com/jasonsbuspage
WELL SAID!
I agree, that a "National Standard" would create too much of a problem. Especially here in the rugged west coast. Buses speced for East Coast use would practically fall apart over here, so I don't think it will happen.
And I hope it doesn't, because it shouldn't!
"Preserving America's best - THE GILLIG! - THE BEST NEVER REST" http://www.geocities.com/gilligcoaches/ |
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MamaLoca
Advanced Member
USA
400 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2001 : 10:27:09 AM
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Good Points One and all.
First for Driver Requirements.
I agree with the notion that All drivers nationwide should be subjected to the same stringent Background checks, Physical Exams, Driving Tests, Written Tests, and Endurance Tests.
I just know from New York State Education Requirements (NYS professional licensing agency) and am not familliar with any other State's requirements. Nationwide standard requirements would lend itself to creating continuing education for the various aspects of the Transportation Industry. This would (I'm following the NAPT's lead here) facilitate local BOCES, and colleges offering classes for certification as Pupil Transport Driver Instructor, Pupil Transportation Specialist, Supervisor of Pupil Transportation, and Director of Transportation. Of course these could be modified and added to.
We all would greatly benifit from uniform requirements both in respect to our overall public appearance and in resect to advancement in our Profession of Choice.
Second Bus Specifications:
I agree with Mr. Rosenow regarding the differences of climate and terrain from region to region. I think that if the country could be devided into such regions that the different requirements of those regions could dictate the specifications that would be required.
The intrinsic difficulty here would be various State Governments having to work together and come to a concensus on the requirements. Those States who have tough specs would not want to give up the safety measures they have come to rely on and those who do not have tough Specs would (I'm sure) be conserned with the extra cost that would be incurred by their school districts with more requirements.
There are so many different IF's, And's and But's that go along with these ideas. My hope is that someday the School Bus Driving Profession will reach a level of respect and conpensation to rival similar industries and professions.
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to.
http://www.canandaiguaschools.org/bus/ |
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busguyuk
Active Member
United Kingdom
31 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2001 : 11:57:12 AM
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How about the manufacturers offering a modular approach to the vehicle specs. Say the base spec covers the 6-8 states with the lowest requirements and is the low cost solution. A number of modular packages are offered to cover higher spec, bad weather specs, hot weather, tough terrain, etc. rather than massive individual option lists which make both the purchasers and suppliers job more difficult.
There must be a simpler 2001 way of doing business!
You only live once - so make sure you make a difference!! |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2001 : 12:39:56 PM
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I don't think it's really all that complicated, co-operation is the key. Florida and Kentucky, for instance, have base state specs. that are very similar, despite the obvious geographical differences. Other states could use these specs to start discussions with. A bigger problem is that there are so many states that DON'T have their own bid, that I can hardly believe it! Potential cost savings are huge for each state and district. If we could get folks to do that to start with then there would only be 50 base buses instead of the hundreds that there are now. (Many of them would more than likely be very similar)
Any takers??
Joe
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busguyuk
Active Member
United Kingdom
31 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2001 : 1:51:24 PM
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Joe
How can we work towards that? It is in the school district's interests, and the states themselves to have well thought out specs.
Any ideas? Would the Editor provide a forum in the magazine and put forward some thought provoking arguements for positive change? My only objectives in all this is to ensure we all have a 'lean and mean' system with no un-necessary costs built-in that suits year 2001. Whatever might eventually be decided must not in any way compromise safety, reliability and economic total life cost.
You only live once - so make sure you make a difference!! |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2001 : 04:09:16 AM
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John,
If I were you, I'd start at your state Department of Education, Transportation Section, and research the possibilities of a state bid for the most popular bus sizes. There should be state-wide support for such a program. There should be a committee of state transportation professionals from the maintenance AND operations side of their districts to develop and provide base specifications that everyone can agree on as a starting point. Not everyone will want the same things, that will be apparent real fast. However, there must be a middle ground that everyone can live with. Your district, for instance, may not want a reflective marking package. However, when you see the prices on your first state bid (they will drop) you'll see that your dollar goes much further, and that package IS affordable, after all! Thats the kind of cooperation you'll need to make it work. Each county or district gets one vote, regardless of fleet size, towards the items on the specifications agenda. There should also be an approved option list. This will put some reasonable limits on what each vendor has to bid on. Some districts will want A/C , some will want wet-sleeve engine to be optional, and thats fine, but keep it reasonable! In the end there will be compromises, but all will have a voice in the finished product. Hope it works for you!
Joe
Edited by - wagonmaster on 11/28/2001 08:11:46 AM |
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Different State Laws - Time for a change!
